Locking rocker nuts

[thebandit92]

Just changed my pushrods,now my rocker nuts keep coming loose so thinking of buying locking ones.I was thinking of buying poly lock ones and googling them there is two types,ones for roller and ones for standard rockers,then i looked for Chevy lock ones and came across some from John Wolfe Racing which have a allen lock screw and thought they might be better,so just wondering if anyone has used them and if they are worth buying over standard poly locks.
They look like poly locks but with the allen screw.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mr-Gasket-920 ... 19e35b4434

[bhm1712]

is this a standard 400 with standard cam and lifters?

the locking nuts wont work properly on the "bottle neck" stamped rockers . i cant see how they can come loose at 25ft/lbs torque? unless the pushrods are incorrect or they are not tightened down enough.

[thebandit92]

Everything is standard,reading up on the poly locks there is two types,one for roller and one for standard,the JWR ones say for standard.I don't torque them down, i just do them buy tightening the nut until pushrod don't turn then give it half a turn,always worked before and that is how i did them when i rebuilt the engine,i just didn't have the new rods at the time.I have read that you need locking nuts to do them that way but like i said,never had any problems myself.When i was reading up about the locking nuts i found links to a few forums with people who had the same problem with them coming loose.
If you torque them down the valve train is no longer adjustable.My car runs and sounds way better since i changed the rods,no popping through the carb on quick acceleration like it did before,only down side is the rockers come lose within about 2 minutes of driving.
Just gonna order the ones from JWR,they know their stuff there,but they are more Chevy knowledgeable than Pontiac.

[bhm1712]

Everything is standard,reading up on the poly locks there is two types,one for roller and one for standard,the JWR ones say for standard.I don't torque them down, i just do them buy tightening the nut until pushrod don't turn then give it half a turn,always worked before and that is how i did them when i rebuilt the engine,i just didn't have the new rods at the time.I have read that you need locking nuts to do them that way but like i said,never had any problems myself.When i was reading up about the locking nuts i found links to a few forums with people who had the same problem with them coming loose.
If you torque them down the valve train is no longer adjustable.My car runs and sounds way better since i changed the rods,no popping through the carb on quick acceleration like it did before,only down side is the rockers come lose within about 2 minutes of driving.
Just gonna order the ones from JWR,they know their stuff there,but they are more Chevy knowledgeable than Pontiac.

thats why they are coming loose - they are not supposed to be set like that - "I don't torque them down, i just do them buy tightening the nut until pushrod don't turn then give it half a turn"
They require 25ft/lbs of torque. They are hydraulic lifters and are none adjustable. The half a turn extra once the push rod doesnt turn is irrelevant on a poncho motor. With 25ft/lbs the nut wont come loose. The pontiac valve train is supposed to be non adjustable as the adjustment is done by the hydraulic lifters and the nuts need torqueing down for it to work correctly.

as for JWR i would be hesitant to trust what they say about Pontiac motors as in my experience they know bugger all about them and often wrongly assume what goes for a chevy SB goes for a Pontiac motor which couldnt be further from the truth. Looking at those nuts you linked to, they are not for a Pontiac at all.

[thebandit92]

Actually the proper way is with engine running but that is too messy,most people set Pontiacs the way i do it,not come across many people that torque them.Done around 800 miles on rebuild with old push rods and no problem,always done them that way with no problems.

[bhm1712]

Actually the proper way is with engine running but that is too messy,most people set Pontiacs the way i do it,not come across many people that torque them.Done around 800 miles on rebuild with old push rods and no problem,always done them that way with no problems.

im gonna have to disagree with you on this one (no hard feelings i hope)- the pontiac valve train from 326-455 is non adjustable and cannot be set with the engine running. If anybody is doing it like that they are doing it wrong unless they have had an adjustable valve train fitted.

There is no sequence for adjusting or tightening the nuts down. You simply put the nuts on the studs and torque down to 25ft/lbs with the engine off.

The lifters take up the any slack providing they pump up and are in good condition. I can assure you that your rocker nuts wont be coming loose anytime soon if you torqued them down! for the first 30 seconds the valve train will clatter. Once the lifters settle the valve train will be as quiet as a mouse if the lifters are good.

[thebandit92]

No hard feelings Ian,i respect anyones opinion who knows more than me,and that's just about everyone,lol.I don't have a clue about mechanical stuff,i have just always done them that way as that was how i was told to do them when i first started messing with them and have never had any probs so that's the way i do it and i know others do it that way.
I guess i have nothing to lose by torquing them,but i don't mind buying the nuts,unless i can talk my wife into letting me buy a double din dvd player for it,then i would sooner put the money towards that.Well,i could torque them if i had a torque wrench big enough,mine only goes to 18 lbs,manual says 20,guess it's close enough.

[SUPERCHARGEDGTA]

hi jimmy
yours isn't a 400 is it?
301 on info to right

the 250 engine has to be done running, tighten till rattle stops then 1/2 turn (slowly)
not sure about 301, assume its the same as 400, then as Ian says 20 ft.lbs (25 ft.lbs olds engine)

[bhm1712]

I think jimmys 301 is on a hiatus in the garage from what I remember!

400 fitted as a stop gap.

My manual says 25ft/lbs for the 400 ( it's a gm manual) but the Haynes says 20 for Pontiac and 25 for olds so I don't know which is accurate.

[SUPERCHARGEDGTA]

would think GM manual would be best bet

[thebandit92]

hi jimmy
yours isn't a 400 is it?
301 on info to right

the 250 engine has to be done running, tighten till rattle stops then 1/2 turn (slowly)
not sure about 301, assume its the same as 400, then as Ian says 20 ft.lbs (25 ft.lbs olds engine)

I have a 400 in it at moment,couldn't afford to rebuild the 301.I have never torqued them down on any bird i have owned,not sure but i think the way i do it is actually a Chevy way,it's the way well known sites like Wallace Racing and Butler say to do it,some people say it's only for engines with milled heads as torquing them down can make valves stay open pushrod can bottom out the lifter.
I don't have a problem with way i have done mine and it works for me and works well,been that way for over 12 months,only had a problem since i changed rods.Not tried torquing them as it just doesn't feel right when i do,and my wrench only goes to 18lbs.Tried tightening them down just lightly with ratchet but it won't run so sticking with the way i had them,just gonna bite the bullet and buy those locking nuts from JWR.
I was confused about them as when i looked at poly locks all the ones i saw just showed the main nuts whereas these ones show a allen screw,turns out poly locks also have them so they are same thing.

[thebandit92]

GM manual says 20,i think that's for all Pontiac V8's

301_lifter_install_proc.gif

[thebandit92]

Got my new nuts fitted.........to the car that is,lol.Thought they didn't fit right at first as they were tightening to quick,probably due to tapered studs on heads,then i realised i had them on upside down Dumb and dumber have nothing on me
Runs great but not been out for a test drive yet though,got all the bits of seals out,after taking almost every valve out on one side only to realise they were only fitted to intake ones as exhaust don't need that type anyway

DSCF1303.JPG

Wouldn't start at all with the original nuts torqued down,first time i have tried torquing them,think i will just stick with what works for me.



After setting them the way i usually do them.

[bhm1712]

Can the push rods spin around?

[thebandit92]

I can turn them as i tighten nuts down by hand,after half a turn with ratchet they won't turn.Butler performance say move them up and down while tightening the nuts but that seems harder to do to me as i can't tell if there is movement or not.Can't understand why it won't start with them torqued though,i would assume as they are tightened down the pushrods would push oil out of the lifters so surely clearance would be same? I was thinking that's why book says tighten them slowly.

[thebandit92]

It describes it better here http://www.wallaceracing.com/valvelash.htm
I think it's actually a Chevy thing,but might be wrong,that site mentions using 7/16 studs with poly locks but the ones i bought were for 3/8 studs.Someone on High Performance Pontiac forum mentioned that using 7/16 studs gives better throttle response,how would rocker stud size improve that?