My engine runs !......like crap
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- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
My engine runs !......like crap
I started it for the first time last weekend and it was clattering a bit, so the valve lash was sorted out, then i tried again last night and it sounds like its firing on 2 cylinders, its popping and sputtering a bit, really stumbles if you press the throttle, theres a weird whine and also its still tapping, even though the valve lash has been done, sort of sounds like exhaust leaking but it cant be that surely. And it only stays running if i unplug the MAF sensor, if i leave it plugged in it just dies. the fuel pressure is set at 45psi, the timing was way off so i put it back to 6*, took the plugs out and cleaned them, tried it again and still terrible
Im feeling really deflated about the whole car at the minute as i dont know where to start with all these problems. I knew it wouldnt just fire up and be perfect but i didnt think it would be like this.
The engine has been away and had all the gaskets replaced, new oil pump, flywheel, valve stem seals, its got brand new bosch 3 injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, new knock sensor, new mat sensor, EGR deleted, ECU reprogrammed to accomodate this, i used the dizzy off my 5.0 as i fitted a new ignition module last year, plus the cap and rotor arm were new too. Im also using the NGK BPR4FS plugs
I video'd it last night if anyone has any input
Im feeling really deflated about the whole car at the minute as i dont know where to start with all these problems. I knew it wouldnt just fire up and be perfect but i didnt think it would be like this.
The engine has been away and had all the gaskets replaced, new oil pump, flywheel, valve stem seals, its got brand new bosch 3 injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, new knock sensor, new mat sensor, EGR deleted, ECU reprogrammed to accomodate this, i used the dizzy off my 5.0 as i fitted a new ignition module last year, plus the cap and rotor arm were new too. Im also using the NGK BPR4FS plugs
I video'd it last night if anyone has any input
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
are you sure firing order is right? not a couple of leads mixed?
sounds like there is an air leak
are valves set right?
sounds like there is an air leak
are valves set right?
- bhm1712
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:58 pm
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- Year: 2001
- Model: Trans-Am WS6
- Engine: 350
- Name: Ian
- Location: Nottingham
- Location: Nottingham
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Re: My engine runs !......like crap
i would agree with John - sounds like a pretty big vacuum/air leak and the timing and or firing order could be way off.
Ian Hopkinson - Membership Manager & Forum Administrator
Northern England & Midlands Rep
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- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
Im thinking maybe the dizzy is a tooth or two out because the rotor arm points to plug 1 with it at TDC, so maybe its a notch out? Plugs and leads are fine i checked that, they are all fairly new too from the 5.0 engine and that was running strong before i pulled it.
def got air escaping somewhere though so i will go through the vac hoses again
def got air escaping somewhere though so i will go through the vac hoses again
- bhm1712
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:58 pm
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- Year: 2001
- Model: Trans-Am WS6
- Engine: 350
- Name: Ian
- Location: Nottingham
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Re: My engine runs !......like crap
is it definitely TDC on 1 on the compression stroke?
it wouldnt matter if it was a tooth or 2 out from its original position when it was fitted in the engine, providing the rotor arm points to number 1 at TDC now. Thats what the dizzy adjustment is for. I dont even aim to get my dizzy back in the exact meshing position as it was when i removed it nowadays, as it never wants to slide back into the right place on the gears so i just aim to get the rotor arm pointing as close as possible to TDC on 1 when its all located and meshed with the cam gear, and then make any minor adjustement by rotating the dizzy and then once i get the engine fired up i get the strobe on it and set the advance or retard as necessary.
yours sounds really bad as if theres something more than just a minor timing problem. It seems a pretty major ignition or valve timing issue and its not being helped by the vac leak, although i dont think the vac leak is causing all the trouble on its own.
What exactly did you have done to the engine while it was out?
are all cylinders getting fuel??
it wouldnt matter if it was a tooth or 2 out from its original position when it was fitted in the engine, providing the rotor arm points to number 1 at TDC now. Thats what the dizzy adjustment is for. I dont even aim to get my dizzy back in the exact meshing position as it was when i removed it nowadays, as it never wants to slide back into the right place on the gears so i just aim to get the rotor arm pointing as close as possible to TDC on 1 when its all located and meshed with the cam gear, and then make any minor adjustement by rotating the dizzy and then once i get the engine fired up i get the strobe on it and set the advance or retard as necessary.
yours sounds really bad as if theres something more than just a minor timing problem. It seems a pretty major ignition or valve timing issue and its not being helped by the vac leak, although i dont think the vac leak is causing all the trouble on its own.
What exactly did you have done to the engine while it was out?
are all cylinders getting fuel??
Ian Hopkinson - Membership Manager & Forum Administrator
Northern England & Midlands Rep
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- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
The stripped it all down and replaced the gaskets, oil pump, flywheel and valve stem seals.
they hadn't done the valve lash though so the guy came and sorted that out last Tuesday.....which got me thinking if they hadn't done that right, have the buggered anything else up.
in not sure how to check of all the injectors are firing, ive fitted brand new injectors too
they hadn't done the valve lash though so the guy came and sorted that out last Tuesday.....which got me thinking if they hadn't done that right, have the buggered anything else up.
in not sure how to check of all the injectors are firing, ive fitted brand new injectors too
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
I dont think they did that no, just changed the gaskets, the pics they sent me of the block had the pan off and the heads off but i could see the balancer still on the front so they must have not took the timing cover off
- bhm1712
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- Year: 2001
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- Engine: 350
- Name: Ian
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- Location: Nottingham
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Re: My engine runs !......like crap
Im not an engine expert by any means, but:
i would make sure all injectors are working, id check the ignition timing, i would triple check the firing order is right, i would do a compression test and i would be (as much of a ballache as it is) checking the valve timing.
i would make sure all injectors are working, id check the ignition timing, i would triple check the firing order is right, i would do a compression test and i would be (as much of a ballache as it is) checking the valve timing.
Ian Hopkinson - Membership Manager & Forum Administrator
Northern England & Midlands Rep
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- bhm1712
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:58 pm
- Membership No: 20-607
- Year: 2001
- Model: Trans-Am WS6
- Engine: 350
- Name: Ian
- Location: Nottingham
- Location: Nottingham
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
but first try and find the vac leak!
Ian Hopkinson - Membership Manager & Forum Administrator
Northern England & Midlands Rep
Northern England & Midlands Rep
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
Vac leak sorted tonight, i had a split hose at the back of the intake but it was on the underside so i didnt see it.
Anyway the bloke from the engine place came to mine last tuesday and done the valve lash, we had to find TDC, and could do some exhaust ones and some inlet ones, then we had to rotate the engine again which swapped the open and closed ones to adjust those too. All done as per my factory service manual for the 87 so that has to be right surely.
The injectors are brand new Bosch 3 ones, and they are just a push fit so i cant see them being a problem, ive checked both injector bank fuses and they are fine. I think they are all firing as all my header tubes get hot.
So i did try the engine again tonight after sorting the vacuum leak and apart from the hissing / whining noise disappearing it still ran like crap so back to square one
Anyway the bloke from the engine place came to mine last tuesday and done the valve lash, we had to find TDC, and could do some exhaust ones and some inlet ones, then we had to rotate the engine again which swapped the open and closed ones to adjust those too. All done as per my factory service manual for the 87 so that has to be right surely.
The injectors are brand new Bosch 3 ones, and they are just a push fit so i cant see them being a problem, ive checked both injector bank fuses and they are fine. I think they are all firing as all my header tubes get hot.
So i did try the engine again tonight after sorting the vacuum leak and apart from the hissing / whining noise disappearing it still ran like crap so back to square one
- bhm1712
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:58 pm
- Membership No: 20-607
- Year: 2001
- Model: Trans-Am WS6
- Engine: 350
- Name: Ian
- Location: Nottingham
- Location: Nottingham
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
If the valve timing is off due to the chain having been removed and not timed back up properly then the valves would still move up and down in the right order but not corresponding with the pistons being at the right place on their strokes.
How did you find TDC? Coat hanger down the spark plug hole??
Secondly , is the distributor 100% ok?
How did you find TDC? Coat hanger down the spark plug hole??
Secondly , is the distributor 100% ok?
Ian Hopkinson - Membership Manager & Forum Administrator
Northern England & Midlands Rep
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- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
I used a thick cable tie to feel when it came up and touched, and the mark was at zero and the rotor arm pointing toward no 1.
i need my mate to have a look who's good with engines as in getting stressed with it
i need my mate to have a look who's good with engines as in getting stressed with it
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
The dizzy was perfect when removed from my 5.0, had a new ign module fitted etc
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
One last try, i checked the dizzy again, and timing and its bang on 6* i pulled each lead off individually and they are good, and def in the right order
one thing thing i have noticed is it seems to be popping / backfiring but from the passenger side of the engine ?!
one thing thing i have noticed is it seems to be popping / backfiring but from the passenger side of the engine ?!
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
if it missing got to be ignition wrong. dont they go anti clockwise on those ? have you got no 1 correct ?
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
Yup ive done that twice now, felt cylinder 1 come up while someone else turns the engine over to 0 on the balancer, and the rotor arm points towards cylinder 1 too so i take that its right.
One other thing to check tonight is my knock sensor, ive been told if its in too tight it will be getting a false reading and constantly retarding the timing making it run crap, but i dunno if that will be the answer to my problem
The car has been sitting in the garage since october last year so i was thinking maybe the petrol is naff but ive been told that will be fine, just regular shell unleaded.
One other thing to check tonight is my knock sensor, ive been told if its in too tight it will be getting a false reading and constantly retarding the timing making it run crap, but i dunno if that will be the answer to my problem
The car has been sitting in the garage since october last year so i was thinking maybe the petrol is naff but ive been told that will be fine, just regular shell unleaded.
- bhm1712
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2672
- Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:58 pm
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- Year: 2001
- Model: Trans-Am WS6
- Engine: 350
- Name: Ian
- Location: Nottingham
- Location: Nottingham
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
The piston coming to the top and rotor arm pointing to number 1 does not necessarily mean it's TDC for compression stroke, have to ensured both valves are closed when the piston is at the top and rotor arm points to number 1?
Ian Hopkinson - Membership Manager & Forum Administrator
Northern England & Midlands Rep
Northern England & Midlands Rep
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
ok, i may have to check that again but the guy from the engine place did this as per my manual and im sure thats how it was done, both close together and you can adjust both of them at the same time.
Made progress tonight though !!
I found another vac leak, dunno how i missed it but once plugged it now runs with the MAF plugged in, still a bit ropey just idiling and there is a chuff chuff sound coming from the passenger side at the back, like the exhaust is leaking but im fairly sure its not, i couldnt feel anything escaping when putting my hand around there.
When i increase the revs to over 2k though it smooths right out and feels really good ! im wondering if it needs a bit more advannce from 6* ? ive seen lads run 10* depending on what their car wants coz everyone is a bit different.
Made progress tonight though !!
I found another vac leak, dunno how i missed it but once plugged it now runs with the MAF plugged in, still a bit ropey just idiling and there is a chuff chuff sound coming from the passenger side at the back, like the exhaust is leaking but im fairly sure its not, i couldnt feel anything escaping when putting my hand around there.
When i increase the revs to over 2k though it smooths right out and feels really good ! im wondering if it needs a bit more advannce from 6* ? ive seen lads run 10* depending on what their car wants coz everyone is a bit different.
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
it may need a run, it is a "learning" ECU, especially with new injectors etc
some are better base mapped than others, mine is ok if I disconnect battery, davids runs rough for a mile or so till it recalibrates
some are better base mapped than others, mine is ok if I disconnect battery, davids runs rough for a mile or so till it recalibrates
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
hmmm, still quite a bit of tinkering to do then. I just wish i knew what that chuffing sound is, still feels like its missing just idiling, maybe it doesnt like these NGK plugs i took out of the 5.0 ? I think some fresh fuel might be on the cards too, perhaps some V power, see if that makes any difference
- Newcastle knight
- POC Poster
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:40 am
- Membership No: 20-825
- Year: 1987
- Model: Trans Am GTA
- Engine: 350
- Name: Scott
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
- Contact:
Re: My engine runs !......like crap
They are the Bosch 3's 22lb ones from South Bay Fuel Injectors
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